EBEL Issues - english discussion

1. offizieller Beitrag

    Ok so lets start, so first fo all hi to all austrian fans of ice hockey, now let`s get down to bussiness :)......
    So austrian fans; what is your opinion on Green dragons and I want to hear your experience visiting games in Ljubljana and Jeseneice and what is your opinion on people in Klagenfurt and Villach shouting yugoschweine and rest of the rasist shouts......

    Hi,

    i just will copy/paste the post i made at slohockey cause it makes a good start + extend it by your question about racist shouts.

    So long my post from slohockey.

    About racist shouts - in my opinion its a big no-go that have to be stopped (and from my perspective its not just carinthian problem)

    Zitat von sjeng

    Klagenfurt and Villach shouting yugoschweine and rest of the rasist shouts...

    of course it has a racist connotation but nearly everywhere in austria you will hear insults like "wiener schweine" ("vienna pigs"), "kärntner schweine" ("carinthian pigs") or "grazer schweine/uhrturmwixer" ("grazian pigs") or something like this. sad but fact: you will find racists everwhere but i don't believe that they are the majority and for example if a graz fan shouts something like "wiener schweine" during a game he is not full of hate, it's just part of the game.

    the relationship carinthia-slovenia-carinthian slovenians is a very difficult one. that's why i think everyone should be a little bit more sensitive about what to shout. icehockey should bring people togheter not seperate them and create hate and violance in any way!!!
    personally i love to discuss with "opponent" fans (no matter where they come from)at games and i see NO reason why this could not happen peacefully.

    @ green dragons:
    nobody needs guys like them. nobody wants to be afraid when he visits a hockey game or have concerns to bring his child to a game. so there have to be actions to be set - especially because the gd are supported by the (president of the) club ljubljana.

    it's sad for the peaceful supporters and the team (especially in this position) that there won't be any tickets selled to ljubljana fans in todays game against the 99ers but i don't forget to mention that there are people that where afraid to drive to games in ljubljana in the whole season because they don't want to get their car smashed or even worse.


    greets from graz

    Lampy you cant set "wienerschweine" on a equal level like "yugoschweine"
    Or would you defend someone who shouts "niggerschwein"? Cause yugo will exactly this way used when those shouts appear.

    I think it was henke who brought in the "greater german/ostmark" example in another thread what fits perfectly imho.

    Zitat von sicsche

    Lampy you cant set "wienerschweine" on a equal level like "yugoschweine"
    Or would you defend someone who shouts "niggerschwein"? Cause yugo will exactly this way used when those shouts appear.


    i see your point and i don't try to defend anyone i just try to explain the phenomenon.

    can you tell me/us a wee bit more of that "supporter"/hooligan crew named green dragons? are they as well going to the footie? what is their goal and what you think is the number of their members?

    heard a lot of them - most of it was pish.


    cheers.

    btw thx WiPe for that thread - quality idea.

    I have to say that I agree with most of, now about yugoscheine chants, well you know maybe it`s more offending to me because I have bad memories, when I was around six or seven, parents often took me to Klagenfurt shoping and I remember hearing sometimes, well not from people in shops, but in parking lots and from some people that obviusly didn`t like slovenians and it didn`t felt nice..... so maybe that`s why I`m more alergic to this and I take it as rasist chant. But ok leaving that aside....
    I think GD could be be put under control, it`s sad because last year in Ljubljana they established new group of hockey fans, that are in fact really nice people and good fans (family guys......), they are loud and they showed this year that they are with their team in good and worse..... now enough compliments to them for chrissake I`m a Jesenice fan :).
    Someone was wondering what fans are chaunting in Slovenia... well as far as I know there are some chants "schweine schweine" but those are heard rarely and those are not for opponent team but for "zebras" who are honestly not on the same level as the league is.
    But on the other hand I like Ebel, slovenian teams gained a lot when entering competition, but as someone said before slo and hun teams are not always treated the same. But ok, at Jesenice we don`t have so much problem with that, because we are use to that from Slovenian national championship where Olimpija is favoured.....
    I was wondering, how you austrian fans are looking on foreign teams, do you think your league gained something from them entering the competition ?

    sure. i am a 100% supporter of the cross boarder league we have atm. league is a better one now as it was when only the austrians were in. not too sur about alba volan though.

    plus i went back to jesenice - i left that rink 1991 (was that the year the wc was played :wacko: - anyway that year). been once to l. - dare i say i didn´t like it too much down there (i see a big gap between jesenice and l. - far more friendly in j. methinks).


    hope that the idea of the league won´t be flushed down a toilett, it´s something quite unique in mid europe.

    Well I don`t know so much about GD, so I will tell you just the things that I`m certain of, their primary sport is football, then basketball and ice hockey is on the third spot, they don`t visit ice hockey matches regularly..... in baskeball they made some really nice "shows" and they don`t cause much problems there.
    I think joint leagues are trend in this region (there is also joint walleball league, basketball, waterpolo.........) and it helps smaller countries to keep their best teams on higher level, becauseh tougher competition is more interesting for the fans, so Ithink ebel is the way to go, there is only few issues to work on, but I guess if in the future also italian teams join, league can be even stronger and there would me more "voices" and teams could be treated more equally.
    For Alba, well Ipersonally think they were robbed this year, I think they could make the quarters or they would fight for it to the last round, but the punishement for that famous fight was really unfair(too harsh). So I hope they stay and maybe next year they can be even tougher opponent with new expirience and better draft of foreign players.

    Zitat von sjeng


    (...)
    I think joint leagues are trend in this region (there is also joint walleball league, basketball, waterpolo.........) and it helps smaller countries to keep their best teams on higher level, becauseh tougher competition is more interesting for the fans, so Ithink ebel is the way to go, there is only few issues to work on, but I guess if in the future also italian teams join, league can be even stronger and there would me more "voices" and teams could be treated more equally.
    (...)

    Which Italian teams come to your mind?

    Zitat von sjeng

    Maybe first two or maybe three.... I don`t have any names in my head right now.

    Zitat von Lampy

    mion was talking about bolzano (bozen).

    Zitat von WiPe

    HC Interspar Bozen "The Foxes" for example

    maybe "Ritten Sport" or HC Cortina

    Well, Bozen/Bolzano would make sense, but which other teams could be attractive. To be honest, no other Italian team comes to my mind as one of the most important things might/should be to avoid another "Alpenliga", where there was a significant # of smaller Italian teams (Alleghe, Asiago, Bruneck,...) which were not attractive for the sepctators, not in Austria nor in Slovenia. I think a 12-team-EBEL with Jesenice, Ljubljana, Bozen/Bolzano and Alba Volán as well as the current 7 Austrian teams plus one more Austrian team from Vorarlberg would be perfect.

    As far as I know, Bozen/Bolzano is being put under pressure as LEGA ITALIANA HOCKEY GHIACCIO and FISG do not want them to leave LIHG and join EBEL. The reason for that is clear: LIHG would be worthless without Bozen/Bolzano - same as Slovenian League w/o HKJ and OLJ.

    And the additional team from Vorarlberg is a special issue as well. There are 4 teams in Vorarlberg, all of them are playing in Austria's 2nd League, called Nationalliga: VEU Feldkirch, EHC Lustenau, EC Dornbirn and EHC Bregenzerwald. None of the 4 teams want to join EBEL at the moment, as they would have to almost triple their budget in order to compete on that level. Furthermore, it is not even sure if one of the Vorarlberg-teams would be able to generate a higher avg. number of spectators in EBEL, simply because these 4 teams from Vorarlberg are playing against each other guite often --> many derbies --> high attendance. If one of these teams would join EBEL, it would not be able to play a Vorarlberg Derby anymore. To put a long story short: No additional Austrian team in sight.

    Zitat von sjeng

    So austrian fans;
    what is your opinion on Green dragons and
    I want to hear your experience visiting games in Ljubljana and Jeseneice and
    what is your opinion on people in Klagenfurt and Villach shouting yugoschweine and rest of the rasist shouts......


    Green dragons: No matter from which team, Hooligans always have to be expelled rigorously from visiting the games, see the situation in the English football league where there is no such problem any more.

    Vistiting games in SLO: I have never been to Ljubljana but I am planning to go there ... but as long as the Green Dragons topic is not cleared, I will surely not go there.
    I was in Jesenice twice in my life, once approximately 15 years ago (I do not remember who played against Jesenice) and the second time two years ago. This second game was HKA against VSV, and I as a supporter of KAC was of course standing in the middle of the Jesenice fans supporting JE-SE-NI-CE. As I was wearing the Austrian Team dress, at first the guys around me tried to explain me that I am on the wrong tribune and that the VSV supporters are in the corner over there; but then I made them understand (with the few slovenian words that I can speak) that I am fully aware of what I am doing ("Celvovec, ni`c´Beljak; Jesenice dobro!"). From then on I had lots of fun with the people around me.
    I also was in Bled two years ago to see the pre season preparation games - it was also no problem to talk to fans from Bled and Jesenice.

    Stupid people shouting things without thinking: That is unfortunately the same all over the world. The best one can do against it is to talk to those people in a friendly way and explain them that maybe they should not be so aggressive without any reason.
    I remember the icehockey championship tournament of division 1 B in Talinn 2006, when in the first period of the game Austria against Lithuania two Austrian fans next to me started shouting "Russenschweine" ("russian pigs") for each foul committed by the Lithuanian players. In the break after the first period I asked these two guys why they shout that. They just said that they shout it because they do not know what else to shout. I explained them that first of all the Lithuanians are of course not Russians. Secondly, the game is broadcast live in the austrian television and so also children are watching at home, maybe also their nephews and nieces. This made them think a bit (they did not want their relatives to see them on television using very bad and ugly words) and they stopped shouting stupid things for the rest of the game.
    I also remember a game VSV against Graz (or maybe Jesenice?), when Rumun Ndur was playing. For those who don't know this guy: He is a not very skilled, black ice hockey player. One guy next to me always shouted Hu-Hu-Hu-Hu-Hu (like chimpanses do) every time when Ndur got the puck (and then other people around us did the same). I asked him why he was doing so, and he replied that he does it because he is black and that black people should not play icehockey. He further said that for the next game he will bring some banana that he will throw onto the ice rink "for this chimpanse to eat". I was really shocked about that; If he had told me that he shouts at Ndur because he is not a good hockey player, well ok, than that is a reason; but to say that it is because he is black ... (The most shocking thing is that this guy who shouted was studying international economy at university ... :wall: )

    Zitat von DaveSugarShand

    I also remember a game VSV against Graz (or maybe Jesenice?), when Rumun Ndur was playing. For those who don't know this guy: He is a not very skilled, black ice hockey player. One guy next to me always shouted Hu-Hu-Hu-Hu-Hu (like chimpanses do) every time when Ndur got the puck (and then other people around us did the same). I asked him why he was doing so, and he replied that he does it because he is black and that black people should not play icehockey. He further said that for the next game he will bring some banana that he will throw onto the ice rink "for this chimpanse to eat". I was really shocked about that; If he had told me that he shouts at Ndur because he is not a good hockey player, well ok, than that is a reason; but to say that it is because he is black ... (The most shocking thing is that this guy who shouted was studying international economy at university ... :wall: )

    The question there simply is:
    How did you stop THIS guy from making chimpanse sounds?