Beiträge von kabidjan14

Zitat von Langfeld#17

Especially in vienna it's pretty easy to get in touch with people who know what they are talking about.

I've noticed this and it's pretty cool. I've wanted to come to Austria for a while to get in on the hockey scene but business, money are obstacles. I think it'd be great for anyone who can to get involved, I would really want to because I think I know as much as anyone can who doesn't live in Austria. Even just getting involved in the fan culture, like visiting a bar in Austria during the Olympic Qualifications and experiencing the passion for the sport and the team with them, would be pretty cool.

Fan interest, the interest of writers drives interest for sports. Most of the fans and writers of the local football team have no idea about the inner workings of the team but are extremely opinionated, and I'm fine with that because even though I have obviously more information than they do it's they that drive interest in the local team. That's actually one of the stated goals in every Suhonen workshop or clinic, "increase the visibility of the National team." This because interest drives participation and participation drives success.

Lol I wonder if you write a long perspective post in german every time you see things different with german posters and I just can't read haha

Of course it's understood that perspective is important and that ours is not particularly relevant (except of course as fans, because fans do have power). If we're going in circles we can change to another topic. How do you like the U20's chances for promotion next year?

Yeah, Darby Hendrickson. To be realistic it is anyone's guess where he goes next.

"In a nutshell: 543 career NHL games in which he scored 135 points, represented the United States in the WC 6 times for 38 games in which he scored 13 points. Had 2 points for the USA in the 1994 Olympics where he played in 8 games. 6 year assistant coach of the Minnesota Wild. Minnesota head coach Mike Yeo was fired in the middle of this past season. None of his assistants are expected to have their contracts renewed.
http://www.startribune.com/wild-assistant…llas/375760031/

"What does he have to do with Austria?": 2 year Red Bull Salzburg player, EBEL Champ, finished with 94 games in the EBEL and 58 points. Retired from professional Hockey in Salzburg. 2 year coach for Austro-crack Thomas Vanek in Minnesota. Wife wants to visit Salzburg again
http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/we…vor-mir-179738/ "

Concerning him Freimuller writes: "Einer von Hunderten von Namen, es geht aber darum, dass Philosophie besser als zuletzt umgesetzt wird (Akademie-Einbindung)..."

Now I'd love for him to come to Austria, any place or team is fine. The likelihood is dubious.

Now we'll see if Boudreau hires a new assistant coaching staff, and thus if my favorite coaching candidate will come on the market

I think a fundamental disconnect is the way we remember the Viveiros era, both how it happened and how it unfolded. Viveiros coached the team to some of the largest nominal wins in recent history. He was the first coach to qualify for the 12 team Olympics, because before that it had been a 14 team tournament, and he did so as hockey is becoming a more competitive space in the mid-major section. You say he struggled on defense but statistically his last WC team gave up the same number of goals as Ratushny's last WC team...I don't think he struggled like coaches before him. I think he pioneered an upward trend for the national team.

I'm not asking for over-performance, just normal performance would be fine. I have noticed players tend to underperform rather than over-perform for Ratushny. For example, Brian Lebler scored 20 points in 14 International games in 2014 under Manny and scored 12 points in 25 games under Ratushny in the past two years. I don't expect players to perform better under Viveiros, I expect all players to not start performing terribly. To be sure I do not want Viveiros back, but it's common everywhere when a situation is poor to just blame it all on the last head coach.

First of all this older generation that did nothing. I assume by older generation you mean players like (see chart above) Schumnig, Rotter, Obrist, and yes actually older players like Iberer, Koch and then Altmann and Nodl are both 29 I believe. This generation did nothing but beat Slovakia, Latvia, Switzerland, Germany all in the span of 3 years. No Austrian team has ever won a game at the WC going back before 2005 when the team still used imported players. This generation nothing but qualify for the Olympics for the first time in 12 years, and the time they qualified was far more impressive because the field had been narrowed to 12 teams (from 14) from 2002, so as of yet this generation is the only generation to ever qualify for the 12-team Olympics. Then this team went to Sochi and beat Norway and played very respectably against Finland, to become the first generation of Natural born Austrians to win an Olympic game ever since like 1948 or something, long before NHL players played, even before there was an NHL. These players were key contributors to some of the most successful Austrian hockey ever, this is where we truly don't see eye to eye. This was a pioneering generation. Eventually, we didn't stay up, and eventually, Canada won the gold medal, but this generation was the backbone of the Austrian teams that have gone the farthest in the Austrian era. One doesn't need to build one's team around them. The team will remain Brian Lebler's, the team will remain Raphael Herburger's, the team will remain Konstantin Komarek's but the fact that they are not there and new young faces like Niki Petrik, Stefan Geier and Daniel Oberkofler...that is not a rebuild.

I agree with you on a lot but again another fundamental difference is your statement that most of Ratushny's decisions have been successful. Unfortunately when Viveiros left he set a high bar for performance. Being statistically the least productive and lowest ranked team at the WC last year was not a success. Neither was getting beaten by teams like Slovenia and France in the EHC a true success. Losing to Hungary the last 4 friendly matches we have played against them (as my friend cares to remind me), I would not call that a success. Becoming the first Austrian team to fail to ascend to the top division in 25 years, I would not call that a success. I'm struggling to grasp what successes you're speaking of, because I haven't noticed him having much of any success. Naturally if he is having no or limited success, his decision making cannot have lead to success.

I simply struggle with the fact that when Coach Ratushny perhaps misjudged the evaluations, perhaps was influenced by club-related factors, was perhaps even just too busy with the EBEL finals to devote much time to the NT preparations, people began to blame the state of Austrian hockey rather than the Coach who was not nominating players who are generally regarded as better players. People would rather believe that Austrian hockey is "in the dumps" than believe that their coach nominated the wrong players, that to me is not the right assumption. There is finally forward momentum at all levels, both among the youth and starting with Viveiros at the national team. A coach must be held accountable and properly criticized for his decisions. As I stated above, I don't need or want Ratushny fired, but I want him to learn from his mistakes and not repeat them. I'm not confident that will happen however. Perhaps when he is at Lausanne he will not feel pressured by club-related factors. Perhaps he will have more time (because Lausanne is in disarray and will not be champs soon). I just don't believe that the obvious blunder of the coaching staff should be paraded as a picture of the state of Austrian Hockey.

Correction: I just read the headline for a Bernd Freimuller article I had been saving until after work hours. Seems like Ratushny will not be returning. It's not great news for me like you'd think, my hope would be that Ratushny would adjust for his mistake. My problem had been that he wasn't being held accountable for his mistakes, when he does make them as we are all human, and instead blame was passed to the sate of Hockey, Legios, etc... I'm not sure to what extent he was willing to make up for his mistakes...most of the public comments later blamed/scrutinized the state of Austrian hockey not player/coach performance. The "revolving door" is not necessarily a good thing, the next coach will have very little time to study, ID, and prepare for the Olympic Qualifications...that is worrisome.

The point of the comparison was that the Trainer must be held accountable for nomination decisions he made, not comparing the two programs. I probably shouldn't have used Marcel Koller, I said Koller to make it more relatable, but he is seen as the savior of Austrian football so no doubt your emotions were stirred at the mention of his name even without comprehending the analogy. Another example would perhaps be if the Russian Coach decided not to play Ovechkin, Malkin, Radulov, Kuznetsov...if they won the Gold medal then his vision was correct. However, if not playing those players they lose to a team such as Switzerland or the Czech Republic then one cannot make an appeal to the coach's discretion, because the coach's discretion was very obviously incorrect.

Viveiros came at the onset of the new WC format era. Previously it was just a short group stage, and rank-based so perhaps it was more difficult to win games. Nevertheless, Viveiros performed better from a goals and wins perspective in the WC than Bergstrom as well, and then obviously the Olympics and the Olympi-quali...also the format for the Olympic qualifications changed from 14 to 12 teams so Viveiros is the first Trainer to qualify Austria for the Olympics in the 12 team era. In terms of pure accomplishments I think it is hard to discredit Viveiros, but paper accomplishments are not everything.

Also, the performance at the Olympics was actually quite good hockey. No other team put up 4 goals on Finland, in fact the USA, Russia, and Canada combined for 3 GA, and Sweden had 3 GA. Also, defeating the Vegas Favorite Norway. The only downside of that Olympics was perhaps the stain it left on the image of Austrian sports.

Zitat von nordiques!

Einen Kader nach dem Klang der Namen aufzustellen, hat es schon in den zehn Jahren vor Ratushny nicht wirklich gebracht. Aber manche lernen es eben nie - oder wollen es nicht lernen. Nur weil etwas am Papier toll klingt, muss es nicht am Eis genauso funtkionieren. Wenn das so leicht wäre, würde nicht auf Vereinsebene in jeder Liga von langjährig Involvierten immer wieder daneben gehaut werden. Und Österreich wäre keine Fahrstuhlnation geworden, denn die individuelle Klasse dieser Generation hätte für den ein oder anderen Nichtabstieg reichen müssen. Dem war aber nicht so, weil diese Generation halt auf Teamebene (genauso wie teils im Verein) - Umfeld hin oder her - die Leistung oft eher nach Lust & Laune abgerufen hat und meist dann nicht, wenn es wirklich darauf angekommen ist. Was daran segensreich für die nächsten Jahre sein soll, entzieht sich meiner Vorstellung, denn die meisten dieser Spieler heben sich mittlerweile ja nicht mal in der LIga so vom Rest ab, dass sich das Hoffen auf Wille im NT auszahlen und rechnen würde.

I know it's common for people to appeal to coaches' discretion. "Well the coach knows, because he sits in the practices, and he works out with the players." The problem is this, that is all ok if he's winning. If a coach is using his coaches' discretion and winning then you can say "well he sees something we don't see." The problem is, his discretion was obviously incorrect. We've seen all those players, Nodl, Altmann, Iberer, Rotter, Schumnig, play in tournaments before and we won. We've also seen what happens when Ratushny uses his coach's discretion, failure to ascend.

If I'm understanding correctly, I would have to disagree about Viveiros because between him and Pock was a man named Lars Borgstrom and I think it's safe to say that Viveiros significantly outperformed Borgstrom even though both succeeded Pock.

I would hope Ratushny would be able to adjust, however, the problem isn't coaching ability (see three clubs), the problem is business and too many vested interests. As I said before, intentionally omitting all the Graz players, there seems to be no shortage of bias there, never giving even so much as a look at Patrick Obrist, but Johannes Bischofberger gets a camp invite. If he were successful, that's all ok because we can then trust his judgment. If you look at his stats with quantifiable metrics he has not been successful. Yes, I absolutely understand the principle of Coaches' discretion. But if Marcel Koller (in theory) intentionally decided not to play David Alaba, and Austria began winning tournaments one could say "he is using his coach's discretion. But if Marcel Koller decided not to play David Alaba, and half the starting lineup as well, and Austria failed to qualify for the Euro Cup and World Cup and began losing matches to the USA, Canada can one keep appealing to his judgment that is obviously flawed?

Great interview, very insightful I'm sure. Unfortunately I only picked up a few words here and there "eishockey Spieler", "Vienna capitals".

Zitat von alex_tiroler

Is their a rumour that Garret Ross will join Innsbruck?

Sorry...my bad, he's more of a wish/hope/suggestion of mine. If it's irrelevant to the topic you can mod it out.

Zitat von Langfeld#17

Don't worry there is no future for him. It's up to Lausanne but don't believe they are happy with the situation.

Last year i was a big fan of ratushny. This year he did a bad Job. he nominated a b-c-team installed a 2-man forecheck austria wasn't able to play well till the last game and with sticking in Div 1a (first time sine 25years) he weakened the reputation of austrian hockey a lot.

Austria needs a full time coach.

Agreed. I liked him as a person. When Viveiros left, despite being very successful on paper, he left a program that had very low morale. I remember it was after Sochi and there were some unpleasant words exchanged between Suhonen and a leaving Viveiros, and that left Kalt in a very awkward position as well. Also, after Sochi numerous players retired from the NT like Setzinger, and after the Viveiros firing even more players and coachs like Welser and Markus Kerschbaumer retired from the NT (and some I forget), it was basically a mess. Ratushny came in, and made peace with the staff, and regained the trust of many players, trainers and fans in the national program. He also galvanized the fanbase, which was great, he made people proud and excited to cheer for the national team again. I'm glad if he leaves (which it seems he will need to) it will be for promotion because he's a great guy, things just didn't work out for him. As a club coach and a NT coach he was probably too busy, and too many different interests.

This year was just a bad year for the reputation of Austria hockey with the tough situation at the Men's NT level and the weak 98' class. That's why I was hoping next year would be a rebound year. The men's NT will soon be strengthened by players like Haudum, Huber, Zwerger, Wolf, Baltram, Kromp, a large crop of young stars. The junior national teams will also be strengthened by the 00-01 class with Rossi, Baumgartner, Payr, Kandemir, Huber, Harnisch, and looking even farther down Kai Hammerle looks amazing. Despite immediate loses, I at least feel comforted that there seems to be an upward trend.

Zitat von meand

no chance - LOL
die Schmach des 4ten Platzes letzte Woche ist lange vergessen alle EBEL Clubs decken sich wieder mit Legios ein wo geht, das geforderte umdenken mit Einbau von vemehrt Eigenbauspielen etc. wird nie stattfinden

Tendenz eher Richtung unten

I see a lot of pessimism like this. I recently had a conversation with a Hungarian who was boasting about Hungary beating Austria in the Albert Schutz. When I told him we sent a B team he didn't believe me, so I showed him. This is the Austrian Rosters by rank (highlighted are those who played against Hungary, strongest - weakest)

22 Man A team

Vanek - M. Raffl - Grabner
T. Raffl - Komarek- Lebler
Herburger - M. Geier - Ganahl
Nodl - Hundertpfund - Rotter

Ulmer - Heinrich
Altmann - Iberer
Schlacher - Schumnig
Pallestrang - Unterweger

Lange
Starkbaum

22 Man B team

Koch - Obrist - Schneider
Schiechl - Hofer - Kaspitz
Haudum - Betrik - Netrik
Zwerger - Huber - Kristler

Viveiros - Reinthaler
P. Lakos - Zorec
Peter - Mitterdorfer
Bacher - Brunner

Kickert
Swette

22 Man C team

Fischer - S. Geier - Woger
Oberkofler - Cijan - Wukovits
Hartl - Leiler - Rauchenwald
Pinter - Platzer - Kromp

Wolf - Lembacher
Fechtig - Kirchschlager
Reichel - Kreuter
Jakubitzka - Vallant

Dechel
Muller

Adjusting this for who played in the WC D1A

22 Man A team

Vanek - M. Raffl - Grabner
T. Raffl - Komarek- Lebler
Herburger - M. Geier - Ganahl
Nodl - Hundertpfund - Rotter

Ulmer - Heinrich
Altmann - Iberer
Schlacher - Schumnig
Pallestrang - Unterweger

Lange
Starkbaum

22 Man B team

Koch - Obrist - Schneider
Schiechl - Hofer - Kaspitz
Haudum - Betrik - Netrik
Zwerger - Huber - Kristler

Viveiros - Reinthaler
P. Lakos - Zorec
Peter - Mitterdorfer
Bacher - Brunner

Kickert
Swette

22 Man C team

Fischer - S. Geier - Woger
Oberkofler - Cijan - Wukovits
Hartl - Leiler - Rauchenwald
Pinter - Platzer - Kromp

Wolf - Lembacher
Fechtig - Kirchschlager
Reichel - Kreuter
Jakubitzka - Vallant

Dechel
Muller

Some of the individual rankings are debatable of course, but the premise of the chart is not. Also, I didn't include players like Trattnig or Lakos who I'm not sure are still available. Overall the pessimism around the program is saddening and undeserved. My problem with Coach Ratushny is that he intentionally nominated a team that was significantly worse than the best team available. After this tournament, a tournament where we played 9 A-teamers, 10 B-teamers, and 3 C-teamers I must have seen 100 times people despairing about how Austrian hockey is now "B" level or lower than Hungary or Poland or Italy. First of all, the international community considers the top 8 teams "A" level, so Canada, Russia to Switzerland and Slovakia, so in one sense we have always been a "B" Nation. But to think that Austrian hockey is somehow weaker because the Coach plays favorites, and is unwilling to nominate the best players, that is frustrating. I do not know Coach Ratushny's intentions for his decisions, perhaps even just pride believing that the competition would be far too insignificant as to not even require an A team, but he has started a true firestorm of despair among the fanbase, and an incredible amount of friction between local writers, coaches and imported "Nordamerikaner Teamchefs" of whom he is one and for this reason I think it would be best for him to not return.

I think to get back to the topic however, I think it is almost inevitable that Austria will be promoted next year. I think next year whoever is the coach, even if it is still coach Ratushny, will take the opposition more seriously and set his personal preferences aside. I think with the best possible domestic lineup there is no way any team in that division could come close to Austria.

I keep hoping some team will pick up on Garret Ross. He would be a real steal. Just last year he had 43 points in 69 games for the Rockford Icehogs of the AHL, and 3 points in the playoffs as well. This year however he has struggled immensely with only 20 points in 65 games which makes it unlikely that Chicago would have signed him in the first place. Also, he was suspended for part of the season as the result of a felony that was charged against him, but the charges were dropped and he wasn't prosecuted. Because of these factors he probably won't be signed by a team stateside, and that with his poor stats this season make him a less attractive prospect for clubs in leagues like the KHL, Liiga, or the SHL. However, his stats, as well as scoring a goal in a pre-season NHL game speak for themselves. He likely made a mistake being a young man and he has struggled, but he could easily be a franchise player for any EBEL team. Innsbruck would be a prime candidate after already losing Ulmer. He's just a prime candidate and almost a slam dunk to be a franchise player and I hope someone takes him up on it.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45562

As I said, there's not much skill between the bigger defensemen. Winkler has a good hard accurate shot but that is mostly it, he can be responsible on defense sometimes. Steffler is average sized, has an accurate shot but velocity is a big issue, he can't "get much behind it" at 70 kg. He is a good skater though, needs to put on about 10 kg in muscle. Wolf, Nussbaumer and Sztatecsny are also better skaters, but they're all fairly small, and none are great shooters either. You'll have to wait until 2000 for a big defender who also has a great shot and can skate well. That said, the powerplay should be very dangerous. Bernd Wolf is a natural PP "point guard" like in basketball and so for that matter is Kele Steffler.

I think Norway is declining, and if careful Kazakhstan and France should also be wins. The important games will be against Germany and Belarus.

Hmmm...I'm not sure I believe in home advantage. Germany and Austria are built perfectly for each other usually to allow Austria a good chance to win. German youth teams are large and slow, and often tactically regressive. Good Austrian teams are usually small and fast and full of energy, very irritating to the opponent. The feeling given I imagine must be similar to the feeling having a grain of sand in one's eye. This year's U18 team unfortunately was smaller than ever but not fast...

Your assessment is correct and we lose two of our biggest players on the front end in Huber and Zwerger. Not sure if you've seen the prospective defensive lineup however, it's a very large lineup. At the U19 tournament there was Matteo Moidl (190 cm), Lucas Birnbaum (189 cm), Gert Karitnig (186 cm), Michael Kernberger (183 cm) as well as the skilled defenders like Wolf and Nussbaumer. Then the defenders from the U18 tournament include Martin Goritschnig (192 cm), Thomas Winkler (185 cm) and Kele Steffler (183 cm). I would be excited but between the bigger defenders (Moidl, Birnbaum, Karitnig, Goritschnig) there is not very much skill to go around...

Zitat von Langfeld#17

U18: yes
U20: never
Senior: maybe

Haha, why not?

I think it'll be difficult but I think it's possible. Latvia has risen and they were the perennial powerhouse. Belarus loses Falkovsky (by less than 2 weeks), and their leading scorers.

On offense Austria is losing Mario Huber and Dominic Zwerger mainly, which are no doubt large loses. We're not losing anyone exceptional on defense though. Players coming back are Haudum, Baltram, Maxa, Nissner, Poschmann, Wachter, Bernd Wolf. Then add Christof Kromp who was injured last year but is better than all those forwards except Haudum. Also from the U18 group Kele Steffler, Yannic Pilloni, and perhaps a few 99' kids will be added as well (most likely if any are CHL drafted). It certainly wouldn't be easy but I would sure hope it would happen.

Who else here thinks we can aufstieg at all 3 levels next year?

Zitat von nic.del

did someone get inspiration by this thread?

http://www.laola1.at//de/red/winter…hockey-talente/

Haha, I wish.

My thoughts going down the list.

Bernd has for years had a disdain for Felix Maxa, and this I never understood. No player has reminded me more of a poor man's Michi Raffl, not overwhelmingly fast or skilled but larger and assertive along the boards, which he uses to spring assists.

Yannick Pilloni is good but didn't improve much from last season to this season. I'm completely disillusioned with Daniel Obersteiner, EBEL 3rd liner at best. Not only as Bernd said is he inexplosive but also weak and too small a frame to project more muscle. His knock on Steffler is strength, but that should be easiest to correct...bring him to america we have weight training programs here if they're not in Austria...

This figure demonstrates why I like Alex Maxa:
Felix Maxa (#5,97) 13/14: 18GP,1P >> 14/15: 41GP,44P
Alexander Maxa (#4,99) 15/16: 11GP,3P >> 16/17: ???
A little smaller but more explosive than his brother, thought Bernd might like him more but no he's still a Maxa. Zitz was the most impressive player throughout the regular season, I have a hard time vetting against him. Bested Sam Witting in every category of league play.

Lanzinger...that debate will not fade. Bernd is not worried about his size because his dad was 6'2". I'm worried because he's 16 1/2, I don't know if his father had a late growth spurt but normally a child grows 2 cm after turning 17. Exceptions exist obviously...

Jacob Pfeffer...shows offensive potential but weak on D. It would be unlike me to project Pfeffer (160 cm) over Poschmann (178 cm)...

Came across an article written a few years ago by Hannes Biedermann
http://derstandard.at/1350261052064/…achwuchstalente
What I always appreciated about Hannes was that he had a passion for writing about Austrian hockey and promoting Austrian hockey through literature, even though fundamentally we rarely agreed on anything, it was wonderful that literature was being published on Austrian players and prospects.

The largest and most irreparable disconnect between his opinions and mine were the size vs. skill discrepancy. This is evident in his top striker prediction: Johannes Bischofberger. The first time I saw Bischofberger (172 cm) I lost interest almost immediately, as his height and weight are in no way projectable to competitive divisions of hockey. Here he appears as the top offensive prospect in the region however, over players like Mario Huber, Marco Richter, Patrick Obrist and Valentin Leiler. Also other projections such as Phillip Zopf (175 cm) over David Kickert proved to be poor choices of skill over projectable size, though hindsight makes things much clearer...the gamble also paid off with Luka Gracnar (if Gracnar could be considered a gamble)

Zitat von nordiques!

Glaube mir, ich weiß sicher nicht, was Du denkst - wie auch. Nur wenn Du nach zwei Jahren schon irgendwelche konkreten Ergebnisse wie Klassenerhalte oder Aufstiege et al als Ergebnis von einem Projekt, in dem es primär mal um die Präferenzen Trainerausbildung, langfristige (sic!) NT-Strukturen & Club-Mentoring geht (also mal eine Basis legen), verlangst oder dem Bader sinngemäß die Verantwortung für den körperlichen Zustand der Hubers überträgst (dafür sind wohl nach wie vor primär sie selber und deren Vereinstrainer zuständig), wundere ich mich schon, ob Du Dich mit dem, was Du da so kritisierst bis niedermachst, mehr als überschriftmäßig beschäftigst? Weil ich hab jetzt sicher nicht das Insiderwissen und den -durchblick, weil halt nur passiver Hockeyinteressent, aber selbst ich weiß, dass das Austrian Hockey Board vorm Suhonen gegründet worden ist und mit seinem Projekt Austrian Hockey 2017 nur soviel zu tun hat, dass die Umsetzung des Projektes ohne dieses (auch hier inklusive von mir) öfters kritisierte Board wahrscheinlich nicht möglich gewesen wäre.

Well the point of the Coach-training programs is to strengthen club coaches in the area, who in turn will strengthen the individual players in their team, so player development is still the responsibility of the board. Also, members of the youth national teams spend most of their offseason and summer in camps run by the national team. Lukas Haudum for example last year had 1-2 weeks before the U20 WM, then the 3 weeks before the U18 WM, then at the beginning of the summer there is a training camp, at the end of the summer there is a "pre-season" camp as well as a team meeting, and throughout the season there are U20 camps in November and February, as well as the Christmas/New Year's tournament for the U18. The U15 and U16 teams also have players who double international seasons, and in years may have a U16 cross into U18 training camp. The U20 kids also often get invitations to train with the NT before the Senior men's WM, so the amount of time a National Team youth will spend training and developing under the supervision of the National Team coaches is actually quite a lot. The goal is to strengthen coaching and PD at both the club and NT levels. I am fairly confident in current efforts as I think you are...things could always be improved upon of course.

Bold prediction to ponder. Can Austria ascend on all 3 levels next year?

Zitat von starting sex

Ich versuche es ganz objektiv und sachlich darzulegen .
erstens geht es nicht darum, was für den Fan spürbar ist, sondern für jeden einzelnen Nachwuchsspieler/ trainer und Verein. als Beispiel wird es wohl besser sein 300000 Euro im Nachwuchs zur Verfügung zu haben als nicht . Es zeigt nicht von besonderem Weitblick; Interesse oder Fachverständnis, wenn du 1 Jahr nach Einführung des Mentoring fragst ,was es gebracht hat, das braucht mind 3 Jahre um Wirklich einen Effort zu erkennen bzw zu bringen. dass die Abstufung in den Team nach Altersstufen von allen Trainern als vernünftig bezeichnet wurde, ist aussagekräftig genug. Die Kooperation mit Vierumäki ist wirklich ein Gewinn , denn dabei handelt es sich um das(eines) beste Ausbildungszentrum in Europa im Bereich des Nachwuchses. Die Vereinsbesuche von Bader und CO wurden von allen Vereinen und Nachwuchstrainern aufs Höchste gelobt. Die Vereine realisieren langsam, dass die Investition in Nachwuchstrainer unverzichtbar ist. usw usw.
Es braucht Geduld um gewisse Versäumnisse der letzten Jahre aufzuholen. und natürlich kann es auch sein, dass nicht alles wie geplant aufgeht, aber man befindet sich auf einem Weg, der nach oben zeigt.
es gibt unbestritten noch ein zwei Punkte, die verbessert gehörten, nur fehlt hier teilweise noch die Einsicht der Beteiligten
Abschließend möchte ich feststellen, dass es gewissermaßen teilweise Quantensprünge gab ,deren Ergebnisse aber eben nicht von heute auf morgen abrufbar sind

I think on the youth front things are improving. I remember when Manny Viveiros left he had a quote, a challenge to Suhonen I guess where he said "look, my Men's national team is the only team that is succeeding, all the youth programs are in disarray and perform terribly every year." At the time he was right, our U20 team had almost gotten relegated to D1B that year, and our U18 team was stuck in D1B, and our youth teams would go play tournaments against local club teams in Canada and lose terribly. I think Suhonen took his comments to heart though, and has instituted changes, particularly establishing year-round coaching clinics for youth coaches. It's early to gauge exactly how successful these programs have been. The U18 team was promoted to D1A (and relegated almost immediately), the U20 team finished 2nd in the first tournament hosted in Austria since 2006 (I believe), the U16 team went from 5th in Dresden, to 4th last year, to 3rd this year, and the U14 team was dominant in Canada (still against local teams). Of course, these success could be attributed to the "special classes" like 96-97, so I'm hesitant to declare victory prematurely but I see an overall upward trend taking place. The result at this year's Men's WM does not reflect the state of Austrian Hockey. Ratushny left more than a dozen better players at home, and half a dozen more were injured or unavailable, We are not a "B nation" because Poland (who was missing no one) could beat our B-C Team 1-0 in a close match. At first I was skeptical, if not ridiculing of the Coaching programs that Suhonen set up, but they seem to be effective and more and more local coaches respect these Coach-Training Workshops. In the immediate future players like Haudum, Zwerger, Huber, Wolf and others will be added to the National team and will make the B-team we send to the WM every year stronger (not sure if they are ready yet for the A-team). Looking down the road the youth system seems to be improving and that brings me hope.

Always things to be thankful for though, loved that the jerseys were not covered in advertisements.

Is Oliver Turan Austrian or Slovak? He's played for a few Slovakian select teams, but is not listed as having a Slovak passport.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=388196

Zitat von puck2020

From born 1998 to 2001 the best chance for a draft is Marco Rossi born 23.09.2001.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=293179

This kid is a late born and goes with Draft born 2002 - Draftyear 2020 !
Now he is in a good klub ZSC and there visit a lot of scouts.
This kid is in the Organisation one of the topprospects and when look the last years how many zsc players get drafted.
its very early but this kid have a big hockeysense!
when he work hard...... We will see

Rossi is a different year from them. It would be pointless for me to do a scouting report on him because everyone already knows about him and are excited for him, but if you recall my 5 (+1) list he was for now the top prospect for AUT01. There's already been quite a bit of commotion over him. I've talked with a lot of people about him, stateside the biggest concern about him is his size. He is listed at 5'7" but looks closer to 5'6" in person. I tell people that he will continue to grow, but they aren't all convinced especially that his dad is only 5'10". If you want a very short scouting report on him...extremely quick and technically sound, has a great motor and makes great moves, uses his body well to shield defenders despite his small size, smart player who goes and finds the puck, needs to grow and work on decision making as he tends to "call his own number" too many times.

Sorry for any inconvenience, feel free to write in german, I can translate it with a machine.

One thing that I feel Austrians and people observing Austria need to change their mindset on is the idea of a prospect vs. a class. Yes, we have one good prospect for the year 2001, but that is not healthy thinking. We need to believe that we can produce more than one prospect, we need to believe that we can produce an entire class. Perhaps the entire class will not get drafted, that is ok, but the mindset needs to shift from focusing all the excitement on one player to the idea of producing a class. The year 2000 is a much better year than the year 2001 in that 2001 is 3, maybe 4 prospects (Rossi, Kandemir, Harnisch, maybe Unterweger), 2000 is an entire class with a multitude of prospects who could eventually become professional hockey players. One prospect, like Borna Rendulic for Croatia, is not a sign of improvement, a class full of potential professional hockey players is a true sign of improvement. Of the AUT00 class Bernd Freimuller writes "

Zitat

Dazu kommt für die nächste U18-WM schon der Jahrgang 2000 dazu, der mit einigen bemerkenswerten Talenten ausgestattet ist."

Zitat von puck2020

Beck Felix ist für mich einer der besten Goalies in der Schweiz und auch die klare Nummer 1 in Österreich!
Er ist im November 2001 geboren !
Ich hoffe er bekommt einen guten Klub mit einem hilfreichen Goalietrainer!!
Er muss weg von Dornbirn dann kann er sich besser entwickeln !
Sein Vater ist kein Trainer sonder ein leidenschaftlicher Vater der ihn unterstützt !

I hope so as well. I addressed him on the Top 5 (+1) prospects. He is easily the number one Austrian goalie for the year 2001, but that is not saying much, only competition would include Brandstatter, Schultes, Horn...he's been inconsistent in the games I have followed him. No doubt talented but needs to leave Dornbirn. Not talented enough to make the list, I give deference to skaters, just as in the NHL draft you rarely get goalies drafted high...

Paul Huber/Maximilian Rebernig - Austria's Patrik Laine and Jesse Puljujarvi?
Initial Outlook: Paul Huber, 188 cm, ~81kg, 6-20-2000, Sturmer and Maximilian Rebernig, 186-187 cm, ~82-83 kg, 9-3-2000, Sturmer
Huber = 7 goals, 12 points in 23 games playing in the EBJL, 20 points in 11 games at the U16 level including elevated performance in the playoff finals and semi-finals, goals against the toughest teams faced, the U16 National Teams of Slovakia, Germany, Norway, Denmark, and the strongest club faced, HK Poprad.
Rebernig = 10 goals, 13 points in 22 games playing in the EBJL, 24 points in 13 games at the U16 level, goals at the U16 level against Italy, HK Poprad.
Strengths:
Huber = very cerebral player, incredible puck control and use of body to protect the puck. Very dangerous with the puck in his hands, great stickhandling skills, able to make difficult moves with the puck and has a strong instinct for scoring goals. Makes good decisions under pressure. Game incredibly similar to Marco Rossi but is much larger and thus less agile.
Rebernig = what we in American football call a "freak", extremely athletic, one of the fastest skaters on the U16 squad and also the strongest. Shows extreme explosiveness despite his large size, can be extremely punishing and assertive with his body, a physical specimen, likely the best pure athlete to come out of the Austrian system in a while, could play outside linebacker in American football. Plays non-stop with an incredible motor, rarely shows signs of tiring.
Weaknesses:
Huber = extremely poor skater, skating technique is incredibly bad and involves a lot of wasted movement. Poor skating leaves him with little or no explosiveness, takes a long time to reach full speed and once at full speed is not flying either. Lazy at times and gets tired towards the end of games, often can be found standing around watching the puck. Little to no threat without the puck on his stick, average at best defensively. Poor usage of his body, a very soft 81 kg, does not use his body along the boards and thus loses most battles along the boards.
Rebernig = disappears in games against competition where he does not overwhelm athletically. He has one move once he gets the puck, that is to charge straight at the goal at full speed. Fundamentals could use a lot of work. Right now is an athlete, not a hockey player.
Player comparisons and projections: These players are the ultimate test of the effectiveness of the new training programs both at the Red Bull Academy as well as the youth programs of the national team. Each brings tremendous upside, while each carrying tremendous but correctable flaws. Unlike other traditional prospects who are small but skilled and have low talent ceilings, both players possess tremendous potential. Huber was #4 and Rebernig was unlisted in my recent ranking of the 2000 prospects but if gauging from talent ceiling alone they would both be top 3 with Payr being in the top 3 as well. Huber shines against top competition but needs to become a better athlete. Rebernig shows incredible promise but must learn the nuances of how the play the game of hockey. The title of the report is not meant to raise hopes but rather to raise questions. They will likely not be top 3 picks in the NHL draft, though I would love it if they were. They do however have the potential to be top rate players, worthy of playing on any national team and in the upcoming years it will be interesting to see if the programs they are in are sufficient to prepare them to play at high levels.